Those drawn out bends up to and down from the "target" note are a real workout on the 3-hole draw. I've kind of accidentally found that if I very conciously focus my breath into my belly I can get a smoother transition. (Actually Jerry pointed me to this idea a long time ago and I accidentally remembered :) Can you say anything about how you approach breathing and using the diaphram?
For harmonica playing, all of your breathing should be controlled, relaxed, and from your diaphragm. No breathing should be shallow or short "bursts" just from the lungs.
I'm kind of pattern oriented so I like that you describe these notes in terms of intervals rather than specific notes. That also seems way more useful since when you change keys by going to a different harp, staying in the same position, all the relationships stay the same. So just to check, the third hole unbent is the major third of the scale and also the third of the I chord. The third hole half-step bend is the flat or minor third of the scale and the dominant seventh of the IV chord. The third hole whole-step bend is the second of the scale and the fifth of the V chord.
I notice that you're using the two-hole blow over the one chord. That also seems to have a less nasty, more melodic feel. Major sixth of the scale and I chord. Is that a thing you're using deliberately there?
I focus first on getting the notes and feel into my head, then finding the notes and feel on the harp. But after that, the theory gives me a frame of reference for why certain notes or intervals work or don't work and why they give a more bluesy or more "majory" feel. I'm not very sophisticated in the theory (yet) but it's interesting and seems really helpful to me. There's no subsitute for listening and playing but I really appreciate that you're including these concepts.
Hi Bill - thanks! and yes, you are correct, but let me clarify...
You said: "the third hole unbent is the major third of the scale and also the third of the I chord"...that is two ways to say the same thing. the "scale" we are talking about is the scale for the I chord.
You said: "The third hole half-step bend is the flat or minor third of the scale and the dominant seventh of the IV chord." AND "The third hole whole-step bend is the second of the scale and the fifth of the V chord"...YES, just replace "scale" with the term "I chord" :)
You got it, just be careful you know the scale is the I chord we are talking about since I'm referring to the scale of 2nd position, which is the position for the I chord.
I'm still focused on the first couple choruses but I'm hearing tones that remind me a lot of Jerry McCain's tune, Easy. That might not have been anywhere in your mind but to me it's a very unique sound and really sweet.
Thanks, I really dig Jerry McCain's playing, but it was nowhere near my mind actually. This is mainly inspired by saxophone instrumentals of the 50's...although those kind of tunes also inspired some of Jerry's tunes as well!
Thanks Bill - this is just begining to touch the surface, but gives you a few things to work on and think about for any time that you play the I-IV-V chords. Hope you like it!
Your comments about listening and speaking the same language are really interesting. Countless hours obsessively listening to blues music AND practicing (that OCD tendency you mentioned once) have allowed me to begin to have those kinds of musical conversations. In addition to your lessons, I'm grateful to have some way more experienced musicians who know that language to play with. Keep it coming!
Those are the 2 main keys: Listening and practicing - The more obsessive your approach, over time, the better your musical results will be. It may not be the recipe for an ideally well balanced, everyday life, but you'll feel better about your harp playing!
All the phrases end by going down, except that last one. It feels like it could go the same way but then - surprise! - it goes up. Beautiful example of what you talked about in the Chicago Shuffle lesson about developing an idea.
It's also interesting how you get that pleading feel out of that high note phrase without bending. It has something to do with the timing - maybe playing just behind or front of the beat - I can't analyze it but I can hear it. It's subtle but gives that phrase so much feeling and expressiveness. Damn.
May I say also that, although you are totally holding up the groove on your own (as you consistently admonish us), the interaction between you and Robert adds something beyond the two performances. How much are you listening to and playing off what he is doing?
I like the way you listen, Bill! You're listening for details - Listening for the small things that make a big difference. In my opinion, time spent developing a finely tuned ear is as important as time spent practicing. As far as the interplay between Robert and myself goes, it works because our frame of reference is similar. I wasn't listening to Robert as much as I was just feeling what he was laying down, and feeling what I was doing - It's like a conversation. When people are conversant in the same language, communication is almost automatic.
Just to check back on the side to side flutter...do you have your mouth on holes 2-5 and alternate between playing hole 2 (covering 3,4,5) and playing hole 5 (covering 2,3,4). Just getting control playing clean from the right side to the left side is hard now, trying to use a light touch with the tongue so when I eventually can work on doing it faster I'm not fighting having it jammed up against the comb. Does that sound about right? Anything else you would recommend?
Thanks. Really appreciate you taking the time to answer questions.
Hi Bill - I'm pretty sure that's an accurate description of what I'm doing. There's also other combinations that sound good. I think the best thing to do is, first focus on getting your tongue up to a decent speed, and then you can mess around with where you're doing it and which holes you're blocking. At that point you can use your ear to decide what adjustments you think you need to make.
I got it! You do it two different ways. In the performance and in the first time through in the lesson, there are five notes (5draw, 6 blow, 5draw, 4draw, 5draw) before the slide down starting on the 6-blow. Then in the lesson you do just the first three notes before the slide. I think it can work either way with some flex but the original way you do in the performance makes more sense to me. I feel like James Brown - so good! What a great lick. Do you remember a recording where Little Walter did that thing you talked about. I want to find it now.
This verse is a masterpiece. I'm starting to get the feel for when to use those stabs and hearing how you use them in other pieces. And the pulsing scoop on the trill to keep the groove going...such a little thing that makes such a big difference and which has taken me many, many repetitions to get a beginning handle on. I just want you to know that when you point these things out I'm paying attention. You are giving me so much to grab on to. And I know I'm just scratching the surface.
Hi Bill - It makes me real happy that you're catching on! Sorry about doing things different ways sometimes. I try to memorize the verses, but often I'm not entirely successful. As far as that lick you're asking about goes, one place where Walter does it is in the last verse of "Take Me Back". He does it in a couple other songs too - I'm sure of that, but "Take Me Back" is the only one I can think of right now.
Thanks for the details and for the encouragement. I heard an interview with Kim Wilson once where he said he had a lot more fun playing once he'd learned how to do that side to side flutter. To hear from the two of you that it can be done with effort and persistence gives me hope. It definitely wouldn't be the first thing I initially thought was impossible for me.
Hi Bill - The octave trill sounds slightly different and is produced differently than the side to side tongue flutter. In this instance I believe I'm alternately drawing on the second and third holes out of the left corner of my mouth and simultaneously, alternating between the fifth and sixth holes out of the right corner of my mouth. I move my hands or shake my head back and forth, while alternating between those two combinations of holes, doing it at a fast enough pace to produce a trilling effect. Also Bill, regarding that side to side flutter - You may not want to give up on yourself quite yet. That sideways tongue flutter is funny in that some people can just naturally do it right away and for others, it requires a lot of focused work. In my case, when I was trying to learn it, I felt just like you - I didn't feel like it would ever come. I think it was the most exasperating technique I ever attempted to master - It took me many days of multiple hours to get it sounding passable. Kim Wilson told me he also had to put in a whole lot of concentrated practice to master that particular technique. I'm telling you this so that you'll know, you're not the only one who's felt that frustration of trying to make your tongue go fast enough and evenly enough to produce the desired effect.
Have no doubt that your demonstrations and explanations are needed! By me for sure.
In addition to the seemless volume and pitch swell, you also get changes in tone that are kind of uncanny. Who would think it could be so tricky to play one note?
I'm about a week behind on these lessons. That Little Walter-like lick in the middle - you're right. It could be a whole lesson. I've been trying to get that sucker into my head for a few days now. I think I need to stop trying to play it and just listen to it a couple hundred times. Maybe then it will make sense.
Hi Bill - You're exactly right - Once you get the phrasing and timing of any lick in your head, it becomes a lot easier - Conversely, until that lick is firmly in place in your mind, it's gonna be a little bit frustrating. It's important to remember to be patient with yourself.
Discussion of the parallels with 2nd position are really helpful. Lots of specific techniques to work on for me here: 7-hole blow scoop, 4-8 octave. But I'm really psyched about this piece because it feels like I'm finally getting a feel for just moving around 3rd position. I'm able to improvise in B with other players over a 12-bar shuffle. Nothing flashy but it's getting comfortable. For a long time moving across the 3-hole draw was just not working for me but I'm even starting to do that without having to think about exactly what I'm doing. I hear the note in my head and I don't have to think about how low to bend. So this lesson is really working for me. Thanks.
Great - that is great news! Just always be sure to practice your bends with a tuner in your practice time...each harp is different when you are bending, and different muscles are used from one key harp to the next.
Hi Bill - Yes, a couple of reasons...one is for the particular sound you get from the blow note being in the opposire breath direction. Another reason being that it is the same breathing pattern for those same parts of the scale as in 2nd position (this note would be a blow note in 2nd position - the 4 blow to be exact). Also, intonation is important, and since the 3 blow doesn't bend, and not everyone has expert control over their intonation, I used the 3 blow here. Thanks!
Thanks for your reply. The way you can use bent notes in a given position is something I hadn't thought of but which is obviously really important to how it all sounds. It seems like this series which focuses on the blues scale is the right place to start. Maybe in the future you could feature playing third position in a major or minor mode. That idea of what notes to play and not play is something I approach mainly by ear at this point, just beginning to have some theory to frame it. Everything that helps me to develop an ear for a given scale is great. Any theory that helps me develop a more general understanding of what's going on is a bonus for me. I have taken some rudimentary theory so I'm primed to make use of that kind of information now.
If you're a blues player, the best focus is on the blues scale and the many ways you can use it. Playing blues is not truly major, and not truly minor. However, the blues scale DOES work in a minor key. This is the best place to start, and most players (even pros) haven’t even mastered this yet...
So I'm taking you up on your invitation to make suggestions. Guitar players do this thing where they play in the minor pentatonic blues scale, which corresponds to certain fingering patterns. They then drop the pattern, I think three frets (I'm not a guitar player) and then they are playing the major pentatonic scale. Then they have to change again when they get to the four-chord because that doesn't work. Dennis has been focusing on the minor blues scale in second and now third position. That's really helpful, but I'm really interested in how to play with that major pentatonic because it has a very different feel. You've identified, for example, that the 3-hole draw natural fits over the 1-chord and 5-chord but not the 4-chord. So maybe that's related to all this. I don't really get all the theory but working inside and outside of the minor blues scale, knowing how to fit into a jam session or a tune in these two different flavors seems like something I should know better. I know it's still about hearing it and feeling it, but it's also good to be concious of what you're hearing and feeling so you can make decisions when you're playing with others, especially those damned guitar players.
I don't know if this made any sense, but maybe it will figure in some future lesson. Or maybe you'll straighten me out and tell me not to worry about it. Either way, I'm looking forward to the next lesson.
Hi Bill - You've lost me. I'm just a blues player. I'm really not even sure what the official "blues scale" is. I suppose it must contain the flat VII, flat third, the V, the I and I guess maybe the IV, but I just try and go with whatever notes that are on the harmonica and also seem to work with the particular thing I'm trying to do. I have opinions, but Dennis definitely knows a lot more actual theory than I do.
Just like singing. Thanks.
yes...exactly!!
Hi Dennis,
Those drawn out bends up to and down from the "target" note are a real workout on the 3-hole draw. I've kind of accidentally found that if I very conciously focus my breath into my belly I can get a smoother transition. (Actually Jerry pointed me to this idea a long time ago and I accidentally remembered :) Can you say anything about how you approach breathing and using the diaphram?
For harmonica playing, all of your breathing should be controlled, relaxed, and from your diaphragm. No breathing should be shallow or short "bursts" just from the lungs.
Hi Dennis,
I'm kind of pattern oriented so I like that you describe these notes in terms of intervals rather than specific notes. That also seems way more useful since when you change keys by going to a different harp, staying in the same position, all the relationships stay the same. So just to check, the third hole unbent is the major third of the scale and also the third of the I chord. The third hole half-step bend is the flat or minor third of the scale and the dominant seventh of the IV chord. The third hole whole-step bend is the second of the scale and the fifth of the V chord.
I notice that you're using the two-hole blow over the one chord. That also seems to have a less nasty, more melodic feel. Major sixth of the scale and I chord. Is that a thing you're using deliberately there?
I focus first on getting the notes and feel into my head, then finding the notes and feel on the harp. But after that, the theory gives me a frame of reference for why certain notes or intervals work or don't work and why they give a more bluesy or more "majory" feel. I'm not very sophisticated in the theory (yet) but it's interesting and seems really helpful to me. There's no subsitute for listening and playing but I really appreciate that you're including these concepts.
b
Hi Bill - thanks! and yes, you are correct, but let me clarify...
You said: "the third hole unbent is the major third of the scale and also the third of the I chord"...that is two ways to say the same thing. the "scale" we are talking about is the scale for the I chord.
You said: "The third hole half-step bend is the flat or minor third of the scale and the dominant seventh of the IV chord." AND "The third hole whole-step bend is the second of the scale and the fifth of the V chord"...YES, just replace "scale" with the term "I chord" :)
You got it, just be careful you know the scale is the I chord we are talking about since I'm referring to the scale of 2nd position, which is the position for the I chord.
Right on!
I'm still focused on the first couple choruses but I'm hearing tones that remind me a lot of Jerry McCain's tune, Easy. That might not have been anywhere in your mind but to me it's a very unique sound and really sweet.
Thanks, I really dig Jerry McCain's playing, but it was nowhere near my mind actually. This is mainly inspired by saxophone instrumentals of the 50's...although those kind of tunes also inspired some of Jerry's tunes as well!
I love theory.
Thanks Bill - this is just begining to touch the surface, but gives you a few things to work on and think about for any time that you play the I-IV-V chords. Hope you like it!
Well, you can't have everything :)
Your comments about listening and speaking the same language are really interesting. Countless hours obsessively listening to blues music AND practicing (that OCD tendency you mentioned once) have allowed me to begin to have those kinds of musical conversations. In addition to your lessons, I'm grateful to have some way more experienced musicians who know that language to play with. Keep it coming!
Those are the 2 main keys: Listening and practicing - The more obsessive your approach, over time, the better your musical results will be. It may not be the recipe for an ideally well balanced, everyday life, but you'll feel better about your harp playing!
All the phrases end by going down, except that last one. It feels like it could go the same way but then - surprise! - it goes up. Beautiful example of what you talked about in the Chicago Shuffle lesson about developing an idea.
It's also interesting how you get that pleading feel out of that high note phrase without bending. It has something to do with the timing - maybe playing just behind or front of the beat - I can't analyze it but I can hear it. It's subtle but gives that phrase so much feeling and expressiveness. Damn.
May I say also that, although you are totally holding up the groove on your own (as you consistently admonish us), the interaction between you and Robert adds something beyond the two performances. How much are you listening to and playing off what he is doing?
I like the way you listen, Bill! You're listening for details - Listening for the small things that make a big difference. In my opinion, time spent developing a finely tuned ear is as important as time spent practicing. As far as the interplay between Robert and myself goes, it works because our frame of reference is similar. I wasn't listening to Robert as much as I was just feeling what he was laying down, and feeling what I was doing - It's like a conversation. When people are conversant in the same language, communication is almost automatic.
Just to check back on the side to side flutter...do you have your mouth on holes 2-5 and alternate between playing hole 2 (covering 3,4,5) and playing hole 5 (covering 2,3,4). Just getting control playing clean from the right side to the left side is hard now, trying to use a light touch with the tongue so when I eventually can work on doing it faster I'm not fighting having it jammed up against the comb. Does that sound about right? Anything else you would recommend?
Thanks. Really appreciate you taking the time to answer questions.
Bill
Hi Bill - I'm pretty sure that's an accurate description of what I'm doing. There's also other combinations that sound good. I think the best thing to do is, first focus on getting your tongue up to a decent speed, and then you can mess around with where you're doing it and which holes you're blocking. At that point you can use your ear to decide what adjustments you think you need to make.
Hey Rick,
I got it! You do it two different ways. In the performance and in the first time through in the lesson, there are five notes (5draw, 6 blow, 5draw, 4draw, 5draw) before the slide down starting on the 6-blow. Then in the lesson you do just the first three notes before the slide. I think it can work either way with some flex but the original way you do in the performance makes more sense to me. I feel like James Brown - so good! What a great lick. Do you remember a recording where Little Walter did that thing you talked about. I want to find it now.
This verse is a masterpiece. I'm starting to get the feel for when to use those stabs and hearing how you use them in other pieces. And the pulsing scoop on the trill to keep the groove going...such a little thing that makes such a big difference and which has taken me many, many repetitions to get a beginning handle on. I just want you to know that when you point these things out I'm paying attention. You are giving me so much to grab on to. And I know I'm just scratching the surface.
Bill
Hi Bill - It makes me real happy that you're catching on! Sorry about doing things different ways sometimes. I try to memorize the verses, but often I'm not entirely successful. As far as that lick you're asking about goes, one place where Walter does it is in the last verse of "Take Me Back". He does it in a couple other songs too - I'm sure of that, but "Take Me Back" is the only one I can think of right now.
Thanks for the details and for the encouragement. I heard an interview with Kim Wilson once where he said he had a lot more fun playing once he'd learned how to do that side to side flutter. To hear from the two of you that it can be done with effort and persistence gives me hope. It definitely wouldn't be the first thing I initially thought was impossible for me.
If it was all easy, everyone'd be great. You gotta learn to access any O.C.D. tendencies you might have and put 'em to good use!
Hi Rick,
I'm not sure my tongue will ever do the side to side thing so could you say a little more about the "octave trill". What's the difference?
Thanks,
Bill
Hi Bill - The octave trill sounds slightly different and is produced differently than the side to side tongue flutter. In this instance I believe I'm alternately drawing on the second and third holes out of the left corner of my mouth and simultaneously, alternating between the fifth and sixth holes out of the right corner of my mouth. I move my hands or shake my head back and forth, while alternating between those two combinations of holes, doing it at a fast enough pace to produce a trilling effect. Also Bill, regarding that side to side flutter - You may not want to give up on yourself quite yet. That sideways tongue flutter is funny in that some people can just naturally do it right away and for others, it requires a lot of focused work. In my case, when I was trying to learn it, I felt just like you - I didn't feel like it would ever come. I think it was the most exasperating technique I ever attempted to master - It took me many days of multiple hours to get it sounding passable. Kim Wilson told me he also had to put in a whole lot of concentrated practice to master that particular technique. I'm telling you this so that you'll know, you're not the only one who's felt that frustration of trying to make your tongue go fast enough and evenly enough to produce the desired effect.
Have no doubt that your demonstrations and explanations are needed! By me for sure.
In addition to the seemless volume and pitch swell, you also get changes in tone that are kind of uncanny. Who would think it could be so tricky to play one note?
Hey Rick,
I'm about a week behind on these lessons. That Little Walter-like lick in the middle - you're right. It could be a whole lesson. I've been trying to get that sucker into my head for a few days now. I think I need to stop trying to play it and just listen to it a couple hundred times. Maybe then it will make sense.
So much in this tune. Thanks as always.
Bill
Hi Bill - You're exactly right - Once you get the phrasing and timing of any lick in your head, it becomes a lot easier - Conversely, until that lick is firmly in place in your mind, it's gonna be a little bit frustrating. It's important to remember to be patient with yourself.
Hey Dennis,
Discussion of the parallels with 2nd position are really helpful. Lots of specific techniques to work on for me here: 7-hole blow scoop, 4-8 octave. But I'm really psyched about this piece because it feels like I'm finally getting a feel for just moving around 3rd position. I'm able to improvise in B with other players over a 12-bar shuffle. Nothing flashy but it's getting comfortable. For a long time moving across the 3-hole draw was just not working for me but I'm even starting to do that without having to think about exactly what I'm doing. I hear the note in my head and I don't have to think about how low to bend. So this lesson is really working for me. Thanks.
Great - that is great news! Just always be sure to practice your bends with a tuner in your practice time...each harp is different when you are bending, and different muscles are used from one key harp to the next.
Very cool. Thanks.
Thank YOU!!
Hi Dennis,
Is there any particular reason to use the 3-hole blow vs. the 2-hole draw, especially on the third chorus?
Thanks,
Bill
Hi Bill - Yes, a couple of reasons...one is for the particular sound you get from the blow note being in the opposire breath direction. Another reason being that it is the same breathing pattern for those same parts of the scale as in 2nd position (this note would be a blow note in 2nd position - the 4 blow to be exact). Also, intonation is important, and since the 3 blow doesn't bend, and not everyone has expert control over their intonation, I used the 3 blow here. Thanks!
Thanks again. As a friend of mine use to say, constraints are good. It's good to know what to focus on.
Thanks for your reply. The way you can use bent notes in a given position is something I hadn't thought of but which is obviously really important to how it all sounds. It seems like this series which focuses on the blues scale is the right place to start. Maybe in the future you could feature playing third position in a major or minor mode. That idea of what notes to play and not play is something I approach mainly by ear at this point, just beginning to have some theory to frame it. Everything that helps me to develop an ear for a given scale is great. Any theory that helps me develop a more general understanding of what's going on is a bonus for me. I have taken some rudimentary theory so I'm primed to make use of that kind of information now.
Really looking forward to working on this series.
Bill
Thanks again Bill!
If you're a blues player, the best focus is on the blues scale and the many ways you can use it. Playing blues is not truly major, and not truly minor. However, the blues scale DOES work in a minor key. This is the best place to start, and most players (even pros) haven’t even mastered this yet...
Hi Rick,
So I'm taking you up on your invitation to make suggestions. Guitar players do this thing where they play in the minor pentatonic blues scale, which corresponds to certain fingering patterns. They then drop the pattern, I think three frets (I'm not a guitar player) and then they are playing the major pentatonic scale. Then they have to change again when they get to the four-chord because that doesn't work. Dennis has been focusing on the minor blues scale in second and now third position. That's really helpful, but I'm really interested in how to play with that major pentatonic because it has a very different feel. You've identified, for example, that the 3-hole draw natural fits over the 1-chord and 5-chord but not the 4-chord. So maybe that's related to all this. I don't really get all the theory but working inside and outside of the minor blues scale, knowing how to fit into a jam session or a tune in these two different flavors seems like something I should know better. I know it's still about hearing it and feeling it, but it's also good to be concious of what you're hearing and feeling so you can make decisions when you're playing with others, especially those damned guitar players.
I don't know if this made any sense, but maybe it will figure in some future lesson. Or maybe you'll straighten me out and tell me not to worry about it. Either way, I'm looking forward to the next lesson.
Bill
Hi Bill - You've lost me. I'm just a blues player. I'm really not even sure what the official "blues scale" is. I suppose it must contain the flat VII, flat third, the V, the I and I guess maybe the IV, but I just try and go with whatever notes that are on the harmonica and also seem to work with the particular thing I'm trying to do. I have opinions, but Dennis definitely knows a lot more actual theory than I do.