Thanks for the feedback, and I know exactly what you mean. I’ve been struggling with the overemphasized down strokes for a while now. I experimented a bunch over the last few days and tried thinking melodically as you suggested, and what I think I’ve found is that it is really my right hand technique that does me in. The attached video is me trying out a slightly different approach with my right hand (and forearm and elbow), that feels like it flows much more balanced between the up and downstrokes. This is far from a finished product, and before i go investing a hundred hours into retraining my right hand, do you feel this technique is an improvement over what my right hand is doing in the prior video??
Hi Greg, nice work with this tune! You’ve got all of the melodic contours and subtle variations down really nicely. The thing that most jumps out to me is that the feel is a little heavy on all of the 8th notes. What I mean by that is that all of your downstrokes (which fall on the big 8th notes: ”1” “and” “2” ”and” ”3” “and” “4” “and” seems pretty dynamically even from downstroke to downstroke but they are all also accented to be a bit louder than the upstrokes. I actually had a similar comment to Eric down below. I’ll recycle some of the advice I had for him: Rather than focusing in very closely on getting each note right, try zooming out a bit and thinking of whole phrases. If you do that your dynamics will naturally start to shift a bit and become more organic feeling. Try singing the melody a couple of times to see if that informs your sense of the dynamics (and try to be as musical as possible as you do it). You’ve really got all of the building blocks there, it’s just a matter of finding the dynamics in those melodic phrases and letting the music breathe a little more.
Thanks for the feedback, and I know exactly what you mean. I’ve been struggling with the overemphasized down strokes for a while now. I experimented a bunch over the last few days and tried thinking melodically as you suggested, and what I think I’ve found is that it is really my right hand technique that does me in. The attached video is me trying out a slightly different approach with my right hand (and forearm and elbow), that feels like it flows much more balanced between the up and downstrokes. This is far from a finished product, and before i go investing a hundred hours into retraining my right hand, do you feel this technique is an improvement over what my right hand is doing in the prior video??
Hey Greg, this new version sounds a lot more free to me even if you sounded a bit more comfortable with the old version (which makes sense!). To me it's an improvement and I'd encourage you to keep experimenting with it. Make sure that with the newfound freedom of your forearm and elbow that you don't compensate by locking your wrist. Also, just as a reminder, the goal isn't to completely even out all of the accents, you just want to be more concious of what and how the notes are being accented. Just keep thinking about how you want it to sound - imagine it in your head - and try to bring your imagination into real life as you're playing.
When you're playing a fiddle tune like this, how are you thinking about the overtones on your guitar? I feel like I'm not hearing many in your examples of the A and B sections (on my computer speakers), but it doesn't appear to me that your muting your strings in any way. I can only assume your D28 is throwing out even more overtones than my OM2HAT
I keep going back and forth between letting them ring and muting them out. It feels like each approach has its place, but I feel like I need to commit to an approach before I start a section otherwise I add a certain amount of hesitation in my playing. I'm curious as to how you think about this generally?
Ok, thanks for that! To be honest, it’s not something that I worry about too much. I think that the notes that you are striking directly with the flatpick are loud enough that they drown out any overtones that may be happening sympathetically on open strings. As I play the melody I do definitely dampen the open strings at times. The first note of the song at the downbeat (after the pickup notes) is a perfect example: I actually play that D twice in a row but I dampen the first one quickly with my left hand so that they both have more of a rhythmic impact.
One spot where sympathetic string vibrations and overtones can spring up is between the nut and the tuning posts. You might check down there to see if they are ringing and causing distraction. Sometimes when I’m in the recording studio I’ll gently weave a tiny piece of cloth or leather between the strings below the nut to quiet them.
Just stumbled across this site while looking for a lead sheet to Old Grimes, but you've convinced me that I should start at the beginning! My primary instrument is Mandolin, but I so desperately want to comp Old Grimes on guitar like you do that I'm making it a goal to graduate up from "guitar hack" this year.
Above is a quick video I just took. I am not concerned with the missed notes in my left hand as I can clean them up, but more curious about what you see in my right. I *really* struggle to hit the correct bass note more than ~ 80% of the time. It gets much worse if I am playing with people - in fact I wouldn't even try the alternating bass line with others.
Is there something fundamentally wrong with my strum? Or do I just need to do this 1000 times at half speed? And happy to hear any lefthand comments as well.
Hi Greg, welcome! I wouldn't say that there is anything fundamentally wrong with your strum. It sounds good and looks fine too. I do think you might have an easier time accuracy-wise if you didn't move your arm as much in the strum, but instead got a bit more movement out of your wrist. I actually rotate my wrist quite a bit in my strums, rather than hinging at the elbow. This can give a more percussive snap to the strums (think Tony Rice). That said, doing what you're doing 1000 times at half speed certainly wouldn't hurt! And if I'm playing rhythm guitar in an old-time jame, I'll be playing more the way you are in this video - hinging at the elbow. That technique certainly has its place!
Another thing, you might try playing more bass runs with downstrokes. There is a lesson on bass runs in the Honey, You Don't Know My Mind series. You might also check out the Swing in Bluegrass Rhythm Guitar lesson from that same series.
Hey Chris -
Thanks for the feedback, and I know exactly what you mean. I’ve been struggling with the overemphasized down strokes for a while now. I experimented a bunch over the last few days and tried thinking melodically as you suggested, and what I think I’ve found is that it is really my right hand technique that does me in. The attached video is me trying out a slightly different approach with my right hand (and forearm and elbow), that feels like it flows much more balanced between the up and downstrokes. This is far from a finished product, and before i go investing a hundred hours into retraining my right hand, do you feel this technique is an improvement over what my right hand is doing in the prior video??
Thanks, and woohoo Mississippi Valley baby!
Hey Chris-
Decided it's about time I finally got your thoughts on my Old Grimes. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Greg
Hi Greg, nice work with this tune! You’ve got all of the melodic contours and subtle variations down really nicely. The thing that most jumps out to me is that the feel is a little heavy on all of the 8th notes. What I mean by that is that all of your downstrokes (which fall on the big 8th notes: ”1” “and” “2” ”and” ”3” “and” “4” “and” seems pretty dynamically even from downstroke to downstroke but they are all also accented to be a bit louder than the upstrokes. I actually had a similar comment to Eric down below. I’ll recycle some of the advice I had for him: Rather than focusing in very closely on getting each note right, try zooming out a bit and thinking of whole phrases. If you do that your dynamics will naturally start to shift a bit and become more organic feeling. Try singing the melody a couple of times to see if that informs your sense of the dynamics (and try to be as musical as possible as you do it). You’ve really got all of the building blocks there, it’s just a matter of finding the dynamics in those melodic phrases and letting the music breathe a little more.
Keep up the good work!
C
Hey Chris -
Thanks for the feedback, and I know exactly what you mean. I’ve been struggling with the overemphasized down strokes for a while now. I experimented a bunch over the last few days and tried thinking melodically as you suggested, and what I think I’ve found is that it is really my right hand technique that does me in. The attached video is me trying out a slightly different approach with my right hand (and forearm and elbow), that feels like it flows much more balanced between the up and downstrokes. This is far from a finished product, and before i go investing a hundred hours into retraining my right hand, do you feel this technique is an improvement over what my right hand is doing in the prior video??
Thanks, and woohoo Mississippi Valley baby!
Hey Greg, this new version sounds a lot more free to me even if you sounded a bit more comfortable with the old version (which makes sense!). To me it's an improvement and I'd encourage you to keep experimenting with it. Make sure that with the newfound freedom of your forearm and elbow that you don't compensate by locking your wrist. Also, just as a reminder, the goal isn't to completely even out all of the accents, you just want to be more concious of what and how the notes are being accented. Just keep thinking about how you want it to sound - imagine it in your head - and try to bring your imagination into real life as you're playing.
Cheers!
Chris
Yes exactly.
Hey Chris-
When you're playing a fiddle tune like this, how are you thinking about the overtones on your guitar? I feel like I'm not hearing many in your examples of the A and B sections (on my computer speakers), but it doesn't appear to me that your muting your strings in any way. I can only assume your D28 is throwing out even more overtones than my OM2HAT
I keep going back and forth between letting them ring and muting them out. It feels like each approach has its place, but I feel like I need to commit to an approach before I start a section otherwise I add a certain amount of hesitation in my playing. I'm curious as to how you think about this generally?
Thanks
Hi Gregory,
Just to clarify, when you’re asking about overtones are you talking about open strings ringing with harmonics?
Cheers!
Chris
Yes exactly.
Ok, thanks for that! To be honest, it’s not something that I worry about too much. I think that the notes that you are striking directly with the flatpick are loud enough that they drown out any overtones that may be happening sympathetically on open strings. As I play the melody I do definitely dampen the open strings at times. The first note of the song at the downbeat (after the pickup notes) is a perfect example: I actually play that D twice in a row but I dampen the first one quickly with my left hand so that they both have more of a rhythmic impact.
One spot where sympathetic string vibrations and overtones can spring up is between the nut and the tuning posts. You might check down there to see if they are ringing and causing distraction. Sometimes when I’m in the recording studio I’ll gently weave a tiny piece of cloth or leather between the strings below the nut to quiet them.
Hey Chris-
Just stumbled across this site while looking for a lead sheet to Old Grimes, but you've convinced me that I should start at the beginning! My primary instrument is Mandolin, but I so desperately want to comp Old Grimes on guitar like you do that I'm making it a goal to graduate up from "guitar hack" this year.
Above is a quick video I just took. I am not concerned with the missed notes in my left hand as I can clean them up, but more curious about what you see in my right. I *really* struggle to hit the correct bass note more than ~ 80% of the time. It gets much worse if I am playing with people - in fact I wouldn't even try the alternating bass line with others.
Is there something fundamentally wrong with my strum? Or do I just need to do this 1000 times at half speed? And happy to hear any lefthand comments as well.
Thanks - Greg
Hi Greg, welcome! I wouldn't say that there is anything fundamentally wrong with your strum. It sounds good and looks fine too. I do think you might have an easier time accuracy-wise if you didn't move your arm as much in the strum, but instead got a bit more movement out of your wrist. I actually rotate my wrist quite a bit in my strums, rather than hinging at the elbow. This can give a more percussive snap to the strums (think Tony Rice). That said, doing what you're doing 1000 times at half speed certainly wouldn't hurt! And if I'm playing rhythm guitar in an old-time jame, I'll be playing more the way you are in this video - hinging at the elbow. That technique certainly has its place!
Another thing, you might try playing more bass runs with downstrokes. There is a lesson on bass runs in the Honey, You Don't Know My Mind series. You might also check out the Swing in Bluegrass Rhythm Guitar lesson from that same series.
Cheers!
Chris